Podcasts “Record Grandpa, Record Grandma”

Episodes

1. Episode 1 · 3:06

   Interview — ferry crossings, floods and school

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a conversation between a participant of journalism workshops and a senior citizen of the commune about the ferry crossing Borusowa–Nowy Korczyn, childhood floods, the Vistula River, school and neighborly help with excavations.

   Show transcript

   Host: How do you remember the old ferry crossings on the Vistula and Dunajec rivers, for example in Borusowa or in Ujście Jezuicki? What was it like to travel to the other side of the river before modern bridges were built?

   Mrs. Aniela: Before the bridge was built, it was a ferry service. There was a ferry and you had to take a ferry from Borusowa to Nowy Korczyn.

   Host: Which flood is most remembered — for example, from the 60s, 1997 or 2010? How did the residents help each other in difficult moments?

   Mrs. Aniela: The flood of the 1960s is the most memorable in my memory. I was eight years old at the time and there was a lot of water. In my house, the water reached half of the windows and I was at my grandparents' house, because it was higher up there and I lived there. I remember how we even rode rafts, we swam with children on rafts — although it was very dangerous.

   Host: Did the river also give joy to the residents? How did you spend time on the Dunajec or Vistula Rivers in your youth?

   Mrs. Aniela: Yes, it also gave joy sometimes. For example, in the summer you often went to the Vistula, bathed in the Vistula, sunbathed on the beach, as there was a beach. And so on — there were no special things.

   Teacher: What did school look like in your childhood? What did children play when there were no computers or telephones?

   Mrs. Aniela: My school was here, where the senior club is now. Children mainly played rubber, football, some different games — there were no computers.

   Teacher: What work on the farm was done manually or with the help of horses? What times of the year—such as harvesting, digging potatoes, digging— required the help of the entire neighborhood?

   Mrs. Aniela: It was probably the excavations the most, because a lot of neighbors or friends gathered and these works looked very cool.

2. Episode 2 · 5:32

   Interview — Mr. Piotr: school under occupation and war

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — Mr. Piotr from Samocice about a school during the occupation, the burning of a farm on September 8, contingents and life in the countryside.

   Show transcript

   Mr. Piotr: I started school during the occupation. You had to dig in. There were no textbooks. Later there were no books either — for example, there was no library. There were, ma'am, literally not even pencils. Notebooks — it was like that, everything was limited to us. This is what the school looked like. The school cannot be compared to what it is today.

   My parents ran a farm and it was very hard. It couldn't even be preserved. They murdered with these contingents that there was no such possibility to develop. It was only after the war that something was done there — we built a stable and a barn.

   Host: But was it a fire or just an accident?

   Mr. Piotr: This barn was set on fire.

   Host: And then all these buildings?

   Mr. Piotr: The old buildings burned down.

   Host: But did they burn out by accident? Unhappy?

   Mr. Piotr: During the war. On the eighth of September. It is not known whether someone ran away or set fire to a mound with straw — and everything was covered with straw. The house was made of brick and under tiles, and it stood a little further away. It was good that this house remained. The porch on this construction was simply cut off, torn off.

   Host: It used to be different, wasn't it? Now there are these farm buildings.

   Mr. Piotr: I, yes. And I also remember from the stories of my parents and grandparents what it was like in one house. And there was a kitchen in the house, and there was also a stable from the house. It was like that. People were poor, some had little land to live. And there were such situations. It's hard to say.

   Host: It seems to me that it is worth talking about, because these young people have everything.

   Mr. Piotr: In fact, at your fingertips. And they don't judge. They can go to school wherever they want, as soon as they want to learn. Also, these are situations that are simply indescribable today. Not everyone would believe it.

   And you had to walk to the church. And for a long, long time. In the more modern ones — the situations were very, very bad. People were there somehow, they made a little money somewhere, they stole a little, because it was like that anyway. Well, if they had nothing to go. But such big people... It was always like that. Or there was something there. Always a chicken was killed there somehow. And it wasn't like that. Not only in our country, but it was like that in general. Everywhere.

   Today it is simply incomparable to what it was before. But it is difficult to even talk about it today, according to the fact that young people will not believe it.

   Host: No, but that's why we need to talk and remind.

   Mr. Piotr: And really.

3. Episode 3 · 2:20

   Interview — ferry in Hubenice and bridge on the Vistula

   A narrated story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a witness from Gręboszowa about the former ferry at the pumping station in Hubenice and the bridge on the Vistula River blown up at the beginning of the war.

   Show transcript

   Witness: From this, I guess, from this transport. The transport was also not the same as it is now, what they were on the rope recently, it was just a matter of boating. And they set off on this ferry. It was such a bigger technique as they did on those crank ferries.

   And the ferry used to be not where I used to go — in Borusowa — but it was in Hubenice. Just like the pumping station now. It was there that the ferry was. I know this from my grandmother, because I didn't have a grandfather. He died during...

   Host: And do you have any stories about this bridge, which was then on the Vistula River and later blown up? This bridge is somehow short.

   Witness: And this is the bridge, ma'am, this is such a situation that it was built three weeks before the war. And on the eighth day, I don't know exactly, but right away, on the eighth day of the war, it was already destroyed.

   Host: So that the Germans do not pass.

   Witness: So that the Germans would not pass. And they supposedly only reached the Vistula by cars and crossed on pontoons. That was our technique.

   Host: Because in fact here we also have such old photos from the pontoon bridge, but I don't know, from World War I? Is it possible or am I speaking wrong?

   Witness: From the first one, I think. From the first one. In the First World War they went there, in the Second World War.

4. Episode 4 · 6:18

   Intelligence — occupation and the Jesuit Mouth

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a witness to the occupation, the forest near Buczyna, the pacification of the Jesuit Mouth in 1944 and the local Home Army.

   Show transcript

   Witness: And this bridge is associated with such a situation, such a story. It is true that there was supposedly such a guy when supplying this bridge. He was supposed to be a technician for this bridge. It turned out later that he was a German. Such a Wendland, I don't know if you have heard. He was the mayor here in our country.

   The Germans took the men from here and shot them in the forest. What is the name of this forest... wait. But not Beech, is it?

   Host: Beech?

   Witness: Buczyna, Buczyna, exactly. And Jews were also killed there. Two thousand Jews there — no, ten thousand Jews there. These were such holes in the water. And they loaded the victims into these holes and then covered them with earth.

   Even after the war, when I was there, I was still looking for these people. Because I had it on my shoulder from ZBoWiD. And ma'am, there are still our compatriots there. They are from Ulejów, from Zalipie. Janek is there — out of four people — Janek Lizak. I have forgotten all of them there today. But there are four people from Zalipie, there is also one. And the rest are here in Szczucin, those parts, Samocice. Even from Wola Gręboszowskiej there was such a Łata — he was shot, he got married in Samocice, and they took him away too. And that's how it looks.

   It was also the same as the pacification of Ujście. It was pacified in 1944. And they were killed earlier, at the beginning.

   Also Ujście was at that time, when there was this case with Opatowiec, which caused a bit of a commotion there. And they went there. I have a piece of paper somewhere of such a lieutenant colonel, who was the commander of the Home Army on those sides. I have to look for it, because it is escaped, located there. And he said that they were late from Drukowiec, from Ksan. They wanted to go there in those wagons, but they didn't make it.

   There was one German already locked up there in the school, in the basement. When he heard a German voice, he spoke. And he said everything. And then there were a few people, I don't remember, forty or how many.

   And fortunately, they did something here in Ujście. Gawa — I know that in Gręboszów. And in Ujście, what was his name, Józek. They are in the description. And there were two or three in Ujście, they had already burned something there. And the rest of those captured were taken to the forest. In Dąbrowa, that's the name of the forest. Jodłownik, I think. It's in this forest again.

   Host: But why do they Ujście — in retaliation for Opatowiec?

   Witness: Well, in retaliation too, because the partisans went out there, they were already after the rifle and they shot a little there. As long as it was cold at night, and not during the day. And here they did their thing. They said that they led these people to the pits. The macabre looked, yes. That would probably be the most of these cases.

5. Episode 5 · 8:51

   Interview — Sucharski, Boyko and memory Gręboszowa

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a witness about Major Sucharski, Jakub Bojka and the book "Crumbles", educated people of the community and Father Haleck.

   Show transcript

   Witness: Henryk Sucharski — this man was very devoted to the affairs of the country, the army, and everything. They write in books there, because I didn't know him personally. My mother knew him, because he used to come to a friend of such a Goat and then he became a priest. He was from Górzyce. Sucharski became a soldier. Because at that time it wasn't like that: either a priest or a soldier. People couldn't afford to be educated.

   There were only educated people who had a higher education. It was Kalafarski, a judge in Gręboszów. He was in Targowisko, in Kozłów. He was still like that — well, he didn't finish his studies, but he went to law school. There were three rallies: one priest and two — one a soldier, the other a doctor. Nelak was also like that from Zalipie, a lawyer. They were educated people in our area at that time. Because the people of Zalipie were here as parishioners. That was how many educated people there were.

   Janas went to the medical school, where he is placed today — I think Świętek on this square. He studied well for two years, but there was no money. And later he was a soldier. They killed him in Dobrowoda. There they killed a German and then brought prisoners. Among others was Michał Janas.

   And Boyko was already too old to govern at that time. That's why Boyko — with Piłsudski, the peasants had simply left him, that he had betrayed them. And they didn't want to, they were against Piłsudski. Witos was just that. Boyko had done so much in his life anyway. Because he simply learned to write, to read — well, he was such a wise man for those times. The very books he left: "Crumbs from Gręboszowa". Have you read it?

   Host: No. I haven't read it. Somehow I didn't have the opportunity, really.

   Witness: He was like writing more, I would say like a politician. Because a politician must have a bit of verve. He got it then, he was a very good piece of paper. He read more. He was more aware of everything.

   Host: We don't get into politics.

   Witness: And you can see it, it's decent. That would be it.

   Father Halecki was such a very good man. He simply taught these people how to live. Because it was a bit hateful at that time — towards each other. Something similar to today. And he did it all somehow.

   Host: This podcast was about Stefan Łącki in general, but there was a lot of mention about what a good man Father Halecki was.

   Witness: Yes. He helped people. He wanted everyone to think for him, because he just showed it himself. There is an anecdote: he met a drunk man on Good Friday and said: "Drunkard, I will not bury you in the consecrated place because you are drinking today." Well, yes, an anecdote. Halecki also knew about everything, he was also in certain places. There were probably so many from those times, those before the war.

6. Episode 6 · 14:55

   Interview — Home Army and Baszak

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a witness to the strength of the Home Army in the commune, the fading memory and the family of Baszak from Wola Gręboszowskiej.

   Show transcript

   Witness: After the war, there was a basin of the People's Party here, this area in general. After the war, it was fought. And so: either they went to the party or signed this list.

   Bujak was here. And they created a party, then they even founded a cooperative. Only then did it happen that it had to be like that in every commune. It stayed in Gręboszów. They were the ones who ruled the whole commune here. And the rest was in hiding. Then they had to stay calm because they were afraid of a crime story. Well, because there was power — it was power. It was after the war.

   During the war, it was quite a strong organization here. This whole organization was held by this Bisik. He was a sergeant of the Border Guard in peaceful times. And later he was the whole head of this organization. He kept it all, trained and set everyone up quite disciplinarily. And there were a lot of people here. It was all quite well organized here, this Home Army. In Lubiczek, there were Świętek. And later, somewhere the memory of this Home Army here in our area disappeared so much.

   Host: We will play.

   Witness: We will recreate it. And we will talk about it with the mayor. And you are one of those who will be accosted about it one day. When I go to our convention — because I'm not there in this organization, as if they would write it down for me, because my father was, they go right away — when I go to Tarnów, to our convention, please take a look there. These are young girls like that after school, they are all already drawn there. And it just works.

   I also think that I would deign to come there from it. Because I'm already leaving. I'm already old and I won't be able to just take it up anymore. But there are young people, let them find out. There are good books there, because there are, sometimes they give books like that. It's a kind of occupation here in this area.

   Bashak was here, he had already done a lot here in this area, because he was in such a unit — regarding abuses, contingents. This beating was within his scope. They exceeded all possibilities.

   Host: And Baszak was also actually born in Wola Gręboszowskiej?

   Witness: Madam, I can tell you exactly where. Because I didn't know myself, but he got there. He lived where Marian is now, and then there is Zeszutko — there was still a house between them. And you have seen this house many times, for sure. Because do you know where he was later? At Kaczówka's, on the corner, here in Gręboszów. This is where the house was moved.

   Baszak's father, when he was in Wola Gręboszowskiej — in the army, during the war, in 1918 — became a border guard and rode from Ujście on horseback to Szczucin. He had a horse here and lived here. For about two years, and at that time this Baszak was born. And then he probably went to Dąbrowice, because there was his outpost, and then he was in the police. It was terrible in Szczucin — they stole — and they created such a unit of fifteen policemen. And he was in Radgoszczy for quite a long time. He was fired because the family was already bigger and money was needed. He went to such a cooperative "Rolnik" — agricultural equipment and fertilizers. And they lived there.

   He was not talked about or mentioned for a long time. And in fact, it has only recently come out.

   Young Baszak during the occupation — he was shot by the "kosiniaks". Because Kosiniak entered such houses, where he sat with them criminally. And it was just such a duck there, in Brzeźnica near Mędrzechów. I didn't know that he was the one who did it. They gave him an ultimatum: either he goes or he will be liquidated. He went there, low to Dębica and Dąbrowa. He stayed there. And then they shot him.

   Host: Will there also be a discussion about mowers?

   Witness: Yes, yes, it was a gang. Eight people were killed in one night. Poles killed Poles. And then, how could it be later, it all came out. Because there was also such a guy, but I don't remember his name, in Dąbrowa, who took milk there during the occupation. In Tarnów and further on the street that he would soon find the Germans. And they took him, and so he confessed to everything. Among others, Tadeusz Trzmielik, because he was there in that organization. And when he passed him, they came and took him and shot him.

7. Episode 7 · 6:30

   Interview — Mr. Piotr: Home Army

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — Mr. Piotr about the strong organization of the Home Army in the commune, Baszak's outpost, secret teaching and the fate of partisans after the war.

   Show transcript

   Host: What stories from World War II or the occupation did your parents tell you?

   Mr. Piotr: What I heard here from this region, because I am from another region — there from Bolesław. During the occupation, there was a very strong organization of the Home Army. First of all, there were a lot of members. It was the first organization of the Home Army. According to Baszak, it was he who founded the first Home Army outpost here. And here there were a lot of those who have already left for eternal watch.

   In any case, their commander here... Because somehow they don't talk to much. Because during the war he was the commander of the post, like everyone here. There was another gentleman here, Balicki Józef, Michał Misiaszek from Samocice, Sierak from Zalipie. And after the war, in 1946, everyone would like to be ranked. It was according to the idea of the new government. And that's why it stayed.

   Some of these partisans were simply hiding all the time. Among other things, this Bisik was hiding. He fled to the western lands of our Polish, to Kłodzko, as I remember well. And he stayed there. There they began to follow him and tracked him down. He wanted to return to our side, because here he felt best with his own.

   And he was coming back just like that, already on a motorbike there. It would have been necessary to record it more, but it's not important. Everyone was coming home from Kłodzko and there was a warning light in Żabno. You have to watch who is driving. And he pretended to be like that, maybe when the torso got in — that, of course, it was good there, in a state next to that car. And he started to vomit. And when they just went through all that control and left, then he stopped and came.

   And in this house where he lives here — where I think Świętek lives today, now who lives differently. There in this house. There was such a lonely lady, and somehow there was a family. And he had a few such hiding places in Gręboszów, even in this family house. And as I said before: they even knew that they saw a line, that they would lock it up. That this policeman was lying on the road, waiting, and somehow it wasn't like that.

   It was quite big. Some of the Home Army organizations signed these papers after the war. And that was the first thing. They were no longer okay. Such times.

   There were such secret teachings here. They were gentlemen here: Łysik Stanisław with his wife, Mrs. Maria, Karka from Kozłów, Paweł Socha from Pawłów, tailor Lubiczka Jan. After the war, with the right of state, from the annimatura. They were, among others, a doctor from Kozłów, Bułtowicz Eugeniusz, a master of science, Mieczysław Bułtowicz. They came back after that school, just after the occupation.

8. Episode 8 · 7:13

   Interview — Mr. Piotr: village, clogs, contingents

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — Mr. Piotr about working with horses, clogs, grain and milk quotas and sugar beet excavations.

   Show transcript

   Mr. Piotr: Everything from memory, that's how it looked, briefly.

   Instructor: What work on the farm was done by hand, with the help of horses? What times of the year—for example, harvesting, digging potatoes, digging—required the help of the entire neighborhood?

   Mr. Piotr: All the field work was done with horses. Because there was nothing, there were no excavators. Potatoes were harvested — they wouldn't have imagined what it looked like in the past. Normally, with our hands, there were no gloves. There were not even special shoes. Because after the war, it must be said that we walked in shoes on wooden soles. A carpenter made such a sole.

   It was quite poor. For example, a school briefcase was sewn from a sack. There was such a bag. Not everyone had a school bag. Not everyone could buy some teaching aids, because it was difficult to buy. If you needed a ruler, the carpenter did it.

   Host: And those shoes you mentioned earlier — clogs — how long did they last during such everyday activities?

   Mr. Piotr: First of all, they were very warm. The sole was made of wood, and the upper was made of leather, made of old shoes. And in winter, if someone fastened the horseshoes on the front and back, it was nice to slide. A difficult thing. Someone will say, life doesn't really know. But it was so.

   For example, the food was large. Hardly anyone will eat an apple. In the past, apples were such a price.

   First of all, quotas. You had to give milk, livestock and grain. When there was a larger area, you had to give two or three tons of grain for a few pennies. As usual, for example, 500 zlotys cost 100 kilos of grain, and in their case it cost 50. Grain, meat the same. There was a minimum such price. It was all for pennies. It was also quite devastating for those people. Under Gierek, it was a little better, but the first times after the war were the same.

   Host: Speaking of work in the field — sugar beets? Today we see a combine harvester driving into a pile.

   Mr. Piotr: As I remember, I was young, and they contracted sugar beets, because it was contracted. There was contracting. There were special pitchforks. I saw it somewhere in a museum — just like a pitchfork, only to this side and with that. Each beet was wound up, dug up, cut, had to be trimmed, the tail had to be cut off, and only then to the poop. And then it had to be taken to the purchase by horses. Only then did they estimate how much of this land was still there. But you also had to trim, knock it down first. Now he would do it — you didn't have to scrape, just elegantly, there was nothing left of soil.

   The cultivation and harrowing methods were different in general. In the past, the harrows were not so iron. Just wooden and nailed nails. The work was simply hard and the family situations were hard. And yet, people managed somehow, but it was very hard.

9. Episode 9 · 13:05

   Interview — Mr. Piotr: the river, the school and the father

   A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — Mr. Piotr about the Vistula and Dunajec rivers, children's games, school and the arrest of his father during the occupation.

   Show transcript

   Host: Do you remember the visit of Cardinal Karol Wojtyla?

   Mr. Piotr: Yes. It was in Ujście. In the past, as it was at that time, there were so-called catechetical rooms. But not in the centres normally – in private homes. Because it must be said that there was a period when it was not allowed to teach religion at school. You simply did not. And there were such catechetical rooms. There were periods when we studied after school. Various good and bad sides. A priest would come. Later it was in the church again.

   Host: Did the river also give joy to the inhabitants? How did they spend time on the Dunajec or the Vistula in the times of your youth?

   Mr. Piotr: My sister was, harmony like a guitar. We went up the Dunajec by boat. We tied ourselves to chains so that it would swing. Singing, dancing. On the other hand, when the ferry was there, someone drove into the middle of the Dunajec, dropped the anchor and you could dance there. Later, even the blessing of food took place in the middle of the Dunajec. A priest, a ferryman, a table, a sprinkler would come from Gręboszowa. Kids would come in with baskets, the priest would sprinkle, consecrate. The whole village was on the ferry.

   Host: What did children play when there were no computers or phones?

   Mr. Piotr: But they were having fun. I think it was a rag ball. Guys. We used to come during the holidays. We would collect and wonder who we were going to for apples. Because each of us had some apple trees at home. Sometimes smart ideas, sometimes stupid. But it was fun.

   Host: Do you remember the relocation of the wooden church of St. Sigismund to Żelichów?

   Mr. Piotr: No, because in 1937 the church was moved. We don't remember that.

   Host: Were there any traditional dishes characteristic of Powiśle Dąbrowski on the farms in the Gręboszów commune?

   Mr. Piotr: Mainly for Christmas Eve. Traditional — dumplings with poppy seeds. Not in every house, but there was such hay on the table. Some sheaf of straw. You put it up at home. And when there was some carpeting, you applied the straw. It was a beautiful job when there was no vacuum cleaner like now.

   First of all, it wasn't like now, that there was a floor. There was only a threshing floor — sand, soil. Mostly in every house.

   In the first grade of primary school, we had a rented classroom. There was a threshing floor and soil. But there had to be a sanitary corner — a wooden washbasin, a basin. There was no teacher, I think the third grade flew to us. So what? They started playing in the ciucui-babka, chasing each other, and then the whole bucket of water spilled out, the water went to this land. The teacher came, well, it was a scandal, because the first grade, they were scaring what would happen. And there, one of my friends was visited by a sister who was already in the seventh grade. But we have to admit that from the first to the seventh grade, the class was great. It was not until the seventh grade that we had a teacher who started framing. And he came from another school. Today he is a priest.

   There is also such a situation. There was a very pious girl. Because, as my mother told me, she always knelt in front of the Blessed Sacrament every Sunday and prayed there. And later, after graduating from high school, she didn't get into university, because I don't think there was money for it. And the priests accepted her — there was a church newspaper. And she wrote there later. She was in the Home Army organization. And they followed it. She went to prison and was just in Auschwitz. She went through that camp and died in 1946 in Krakow. A very religious, wise girl, she went to school with my uncle, from a Catholic family. Later, when she came after that camp, she still wanted to finish Polish studies, but her health did not allow it.

   It was worth taking a closer look at those who died during the war, after the war. After the war, soldiers from our area started. It was Borek, and Mr. Gabriel Dubiel. They died in Auschwitz.

   Mainly at home it was quiet about the war. Nothing, absolutely nothing. It was only in the 2000s that I found out that my father had been arrested. First in Montelupich, in Krakow. Then to Auschwitz. And there, from the wagon, with a Krakus who knew the route very well, they broke the boards in the floor. And somewhere there: throw yourself and fly until you disappear. At the end sat the Germans. He came from Krakow with this friend, and from Krakow along the Vistula. But I only found out about that. It was already late.

10. Episode 10 · 9:59

    Interview — Mrs. Daniela: Ferries and War

    A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — Mrs. Daniela about crossing the Vistula River in the Jesuit Estuary, Sucharski Estuary, her uncle from Monte Cassino and the difficult memory of the war.

    Show transcript

    Mrs. Daniela: The journey across the Vistula looked like there were ferries. We traveled by ferries. On the other hand, in the Jesuit Estuary, at first there were only boats, only then they made these ferries.

    But the situation was such that if it was just freezing and there was a freezing water on the river, then they transported us — if someone had to — in boats, and that was also so scary. There were years when the Vistula was freezing and we could pass peacefully. Now the young people are afraid, the older ones are also afraid, even though the Vistula was very low last year and there were a dozen or so centimeters of water, and they did not cross the Vistula. When we were young, we didn't have this sense of fear. And that's how we crossed each other. Now we have comfort, and so we had to figure it out if we had to. Because in winter, if you had to, you went. When there were ferries, they ran.

    I had the pleasure of being transported by boat in Ujście — there was no ferry there when we went to school. A flood came, a boat like this, water up to the ears. And you had to swim through it, until you were scared. And in winter, the ice floe flowed, so we shoved the floe away with shovels. Such a boy was transporting, he had a pole, probably ten meters away. He pushed off with this pole, and we pushed off with this bush. I still remember what it was like in winter. We had quite a few such adventures, you could say, traumatic.

    Or if there was a lot of water, there was no transport. When the water reached the embankment, there was no transport at that time. Unless someone had to, the carriers took the boat, but they didn't want to, because it was dangerous. In some places, the Vistula was very... From embankment to embankment there was almost a noise that was missing.

    Host: Did you talk about Major Henryk Sucharski or the people's activist Jakub Bojka in your homes? Do your parents' stories about them still live in your memories?

    Mrs. Daniela: As for General Sucharski, there was a lot of talk in our country, because two of his sisters and brother lived nearby. Sucharski was also our, one might say, regional hero. He was often mentioned, they often talked about him. The case of Sucharski in our country — in Gręboszów as well — was simply often raised. My parents were discussing, and we were listening, because it was so different with this Sucharski, different versions about him. Which is true, it is not known.

    It's so little about Bojka. I only knew his brother.

    It would take someone to write a book. You know, some kind of contemporary history is very necessary, because there were an awful lot of lies in all of this. Those who were heroes at the time, others returned from the war — instead of one hero, they just went to sit. I recently found out that my uncle fought at Monte Cassino. And before that, it was not allowed to speak at all. Such arrangements existed. The heroes hid in the roads, just like the partisans who acted, who were helped. And then we found out that the partisans were actually attacking houses. They were hungry — what were they supposed to do in these forests? Until now, it is so unknown. You would have to read a book in real life for someone to write a book. But there is no such thing.

    Each event has different faces. And it's not just the faces, because it's different in different times. These Red Army soldiers were exiled, and then... This story, I tell you, is difficult.

    Dad fought during the war: he fought against the Russians, he fought against the Germans. On the one hand, the Germans, on the other, the Russians. And they fought there in the Lublin region, where General Kleeberg was recently buried. And what good was it that they fought if they had no ammunition. They had weapons, but they had no ammunition. The government was already having fun in London, and he was left to his fate.

    The same is true of those who talk about these steadfast partisans. Tell me: the war is over for two years, and they still have someone to fight against. They took on a policeman, came and shot themselves. It wasn't that he wanted to or didn't want to, it was just that they had to. They sent a boy, they shot him and they did so much.

    It is difficult to define it unambiguously. Because we lived in Szanów and Jaworzno was nearby. When it ended in Auschwitz, they did exactly the same in Jaworzno. They killed Poles who fell to them. And they say that nations are evil. I believe that there are no bad nations, there are only bad people. A lot of people died there, because the Poles wanted to take revenge. Only they did not take revenge on the Germans, but took revenge on their own. It was just a stone's throw away, this city was from us. There was a lot going on in Jaworzno — they held camps to show that they can do it too. They did not take into account the fact that they were killing innocent people. Well, just like the Germans, they were not better.

    Host: Okay, thank you.

11. Episode 11 · 2:42

    Interview — school, games and flood 1997

    A spoken story from the project "Record Grandpa, Record Grandma" — a senior citizen about a wooden school with inkwells and a tiled stove, children's games on the playground and the flood of 1997 that flooded the house and required help from neighbors.

    Show transcript

    Teacher: What did school look like in your childhood?

    Senior: The school looked like this: wooden. It was divided into four classes. The floors were wooden and wooden benches, inkwells were with ink inside. And the pens were so dipped as usual, not like now — pens. The burned school was a furnace. There were tiled stoves.

    Host: What did children play when there were no computers or telephones?

    Senior: The children usually walked — there was such a playground. And we played football. Two more fires. And later there were such games, as the war was called. Such a circle was rolled around with a stick. And two people took part in it. And that's it.

    Host: Which flood is most memorable to you — for example, from the sixties, from 1997 or from 2010?

    Senior: The flood of 1997 stuck in my memory the most. Because then it flooded our house. I mean, water has entered. So we couldn't get in, but we rode a boat that was standing in the yard, and that's how we got home. Well, it was hard. My family, neighbors helped us — they brought us food, water, because it was also impossible to use our water. And we waited for it to subside. And everything returned to normal.